The Paesanos Podcast

sean_lukasik:
Rebecca Ryan, thank you so much for joining me on the Paesano's Podcast. It's really an honor to talk with you today.

rebecca_ryan:
Oh, thank you for inviting me. It's an honor to be here with you as well.

sean_lukasik:
Now. I don't know if you remember, but I first was caught up on your work right after you wrote Live first work, second back in, I believe 2007 or 8 you came to the southern Finger Lakes, and at the time I was working with a Work for Development agency and looking at some of the ways that we can make our region more desirable to live in, and the words that you were sharing, and the things that you were talking about at that time Felt so real to me and it felt like finally someone is talking about this stuff. Um, why don't you start just by talking a little bit about the work that you do as a planer as a futurist, Um, and how that's evolved over the years,

rebecca_ryan:
Yeah, you bet so. First of all, I'm so glad it resonated with you. I think one of the most important things we do for each other is humans, is you know, Share ourselves in a way where people can say Me too. you know. I mean we.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
That's such a strong human and humane thing to do. I'm glad it resonated so at that time I was really a generational expert. You know, I was talking about how to attract and key The next generation to our cities and communities and regions, and it was really a script flip of what it had been. because you know, for our parents you you found a job and then you just lived in the place where the job was, and our generation generation acts was the first to sort of say, I'd rather pick a place to live and then find a job where quality of life, quality of community, Um became very important, especially if you had sort of Rare and valuable skills, if you are a computer program or a member of the creative class, and so forth, So that was A. That was a big shift and I was out there talking about it because it was my experience too, and it was the experience of my generation, And then when the Great Recession happened, I went back to school and I got my degree in Strategic foresight, from the University of Houston, a professional stratificate from the University of Houston, and I re positioned Mysel As a futurist where I wasn't just studying demographics any more. I also started to look at changes in technology and changes in the economy, changes in the environment, And what that was going to mean for people who are trying to make great places to live?

sean_lukasik:
And one of the things that it seems you've discovered more recently in the research and the work that you do, is that this thing you're calling the strategy paradox, Where M. you've discovered that executives and leaders are spending no more than five minutes per day per day, actually sitting down and strategizing, which, which they say is a big part of what they should be doing. Can you first kind of introduce us to the strategy paradox for people who don't really know what it is?

rebecca_ryan:
Yes, so it was basically a two part question that. I, I mean, honestly, I asked it to a bunch of executives during a key note that I was giving it was. we were doing some pulling questions and I just wanted to get a sense like how much people spent thinking about the future, So it wasn't intended at first to be like a sociological assessment. You know, it was just like I was interacting with this audience and I wanted to know what they were thinking about. After the results came from that keen out, I turned to my team. I said we need to put a survey in the field, and basically the survey had two parts to the question, So listeners, Question one is strategy part of your job? Do you have responsibility for strategy? and in the survey results, over ninety five percent of our respondents said Yes, Strategy is part of my job, And then we asked them how they spend their time, and they told us, and What we sucked out was the average respondent who said strategy was part of their job, was spending between a minute and a half and four and a half minutes a day thinking strategically about the future, And we call this the strategy paradox Because it is a paradox. It's like this is part of my job, but I don't have time to do it or

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
I don't take time to do it.

sean_lukasik:
What what have you thought about Or what? what has that led you to thinking about? In terms of just the implications of that, You know, Like what does our future look like if nobody's strategizing

rebecca_ryan:
Yeah, I mean, there's a part of me that's like. Well, of course, this is what we get when nobody is thinking about what's coming or worse, nobody's thinking about secondary and tertiary implications of decisions that they're making. Um, it's my my birth mom, calls it mental gymnastic. She's like, people just don't do their mental gymnastics any more. And I think it's true. I mean that same survey showed that the vast majority of leaders time is Doing tasks like responding to email, putting out fires, attending meetings, doing the things that are basically right in front of their nose, and those things are very alluring and often. I mean, this is like a small thing, but there are lights behind them. You know, our phones have lights, our computers have lights. Everything we do digitally is lit up and are mammalian brains are trained to pay attention to that. That there's a sense of urgency

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
with things that are lit up, And so The idea of going analogue like I do once a quarter, where I just you know, go into nature with a pen and a piece of paper and some questions for myself.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
Who doesn't like people, don't do that.

sean_lukasik:
M. Yeah, and uh, you know, I'm thinking for this podcast, especially in terms uh internet culture and the role it may play in the way that people spend their time, whether it's at work or outside of work. To be honest, and you know we're talking or you're talking, I should say about strategy, and and knowing that it's a part of your responsibility, and yet only spending of Fraction of time on that piece of the responsibility. Do you do you feel like those lights that you mentioned are digital screens or internet culture is at all responsible for this strategy paradox. In any way,

rebecca_ryan:
Think so, I mean, Um, here's what I know is research tells us, I mean, we should get seven and a half to eight hours of sleep every night. That leaves sixteen hours. Um, we know that we have a certain amount of will power to use every day. This is why President A Boma standardized his wardrobe. That he wouldn't have to choose. He was either going to do the blue suit or the not blue suit. Um, he got criticized The tan suit, So um,

sean_lukasik:
M, hm,

rebecca_ryan:
anyway, Um, you know, we only have so many credits of Um, you know, will power and decision making that we can make every day, And then you think about the amount of information that we could that we could process, and it's an impossible task. It's a a cisicifian. How do you say it? Who's the Sycipis? pushed

sean_lukasik:
Yes,

rebecca_ryan:
the mountain

sean_lukasik:
right,

rebecca_ryan:
boulder up the hill.

sean_lukasik:
right,

rebecca_ryan:
So what I'm really interested in, and this is why we put that survey in the field? Is I was interested in how leaders use their attention And time and attention. I guess I'm just passing this for myself as we're together, But like how they use their time. how they use their focus, how they use their attention, and we are grossly under utilizing leaders. If what they're doing is spending sixty seven percent of their time answering email that

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
those are not necessarily higher order thinking skills. Um, so so yeah, I think as the internet has scaled as Amount of time we spend on line has scaled is the amount of great entertainment scales. Um, there's

sean_lukasik:
M.

rebecca_ryan:
no way we can keep up with it all, and we shouldn't you know we should spend. We should spend the appropriate amount of time thinking about the right things in a useful way. Can I ask you a quick question than when?

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, please.

rebecca_ryan:
when you describe internet culture, What do you mean by that?

sean_lukasik:
Well, that is a good question. The way that I think about it is that we as a society, more and more are living our lives in front of more people than we ever have before. Um, were talking about our lives in an arena that's way larger than the kitchen table. we're used to. Um. we're sharing photos and details about Lives we are being told, or at best may be summoned to what we should be paying attention to. M. Email certainly is one of those things. Every app that gets downloaded on our phones comes with its own set of default notifications. and you know, right down to the conversation that we're having today is Pa Sable, because of the Internet, and so I don't want to necessarily code internet culture in a negative light, because I think it gives us so many opportunities that we didn't have Um, you know, even ten years ago when internet culture was still prevalent, But but we were learning more about the ways that we interact with it. M. But that's what I mean when I say Internet culture, it's that we're living in a culture where the Internet Is a minute by minute reality

rebecca_ryan:
I see, I see well

sean_lukasik:
And I think in some ways it's about access. You know, the way that people have access to us and maybe expect us to answer. respond quickly, and the way that we have access to just about anything we want to watch or consume at any given moment, Boredom is not a thing. Any more people aren't just bored, and I think that's a a symptom or an indicator of internet culture.

rebecca_ryan:
Right on. Well, I know, I mean, just very personally, Um, I have. I mean, I've been on probably a ten year experiment with myself on how to not do those things like I have.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
I have a hate hate relationship to email.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
I can't wait to finish Kel new ports, book, Um, about the end of email. Um,

sean_lukasik:
M,

rebecca_ryan:
but yeah, I mean, Like you say, access, it's created all of these unintended consequences. And what's so just chilling to me is well, two things I think around internet culture. One is when the Co of Netflix says that he's competing with sleep for viewers that feels

sean_lukasik:
M.

rebecca_ryan:
like a problem. And then the

sean_lukasik:
yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
second thing was just knowing how many of the experts and creators of social media when interviewed in the social dilemma said They absolutely wouldn't allow their children to have access to social media. It's like

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
they know that they've created a poison. Um, and they will protect their own children from that poison.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, it's that that documentary is terrifying in a lot of ways. You know. I don't mean to laugh at. It really is terrifying and I, I watched that and sort of remember sitting back in my seat when it was over and just trying to take in what the implications of what they were what they were sharing. I mean, they use terms like civil war and things, and they weren't using those terms lightly, and to your point, These were people who are or were once formally in the industry and responsible for overseeing these Algorhithms, You mentioned.

rebecca_ryan:
Yeah,

sean_lukasik:
Well, uh,

rebecca_ryan:
Hard

sean_lukasik:
yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
left, turn,

sean_lukasik:
uh, well, maybe, and not so much you you. Your most recent book is called Regeneration, and you talk about being in this season of winter in the United States. Particularly, Um, and I think your original estimate is that we would enter spring in twenty twenty, Which, which is well,

rebecca_ryan:
Come and gone.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, right. Well, It's come and gone and Jes. When you mentioned the year twenty twenty, there's so much that just comes up for people yet. For those who are just listening to the podcast and not watching the forehead wipe, there was a strong indication of what the year twenty twenty was like. Um, Do you? do you still think we entered Spring in twenty twenty?

rebecca_ryan:
No,

sean_lukasik:
No,

rebecca_ryan:
I mean after I wrote that book, so basically the book is about that About every twenty years America cycles from spring to summer to fall to winter and they all have their different characteristics,

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
Um, winter being a time when things feel really frozen and stuck and we've been through three other winters, Um, the American Revolution, Um, uh, the Civil War and the Great Depression, And so I estimated that we had Um entered our fourth winter when the World Trade Centers were heat, two thousand one, and so therefore would be out of it about twenty years later. In twenty twenty, and I did some additional research after the book was published. Like five or six years after the book was published, I was doing some additional research and Neil How, who is by all, writes one of the most prolific generational writers and experts. Um, he said that he thought two thous

sean_lukasik:
Uh,

rebecca_ryan:
And nine. the Great Recession was actually when we entered our fourth winter. And so if if we accept that and I'm willing to like if we say okay, that's when we entered winter, Then it's actually go. We're goin t be out of it in twenty twenty nine Iss. So we've got a few more years, but you know, I have to say that I do. I do think that Number one the national news isn't all the news. I heard a long time B B, C, M. reporter say on a podcast last night, she said, Let's face it, our job in news is to, Um is to create fear and

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
desolation, And I thought well, that's working based on the number of people

sean_lukasik:
M,

rebecca_ryan:
who now have anxiety or depressed depression disorders. I myself Went through a very terrible depressed depression a couple of winters ago. So these things are real. Um, and the? But if you look at the local level, if you look at like, what's happening in your neighborhoods and in your communities, and take your eyes off the news headlines. There's so much good that's happening. People are finding such creative ways to make meaning to innovate to support each other to create community. And I think you know all change starts from the bottom up. Even Kondo Lisa Rice said recently, You know she's like. If you want to see what the future of government is goin t look like, you have to look at the local level. Um, and so I remain an optimist about this and I, you know, I think, whether you think about millennials really coming into power over the course of the next decade and boomers finally giving up the mike, fingers crossed and sitting down.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
Um, you know this, this kind of jarintocracy that is America's fed. All you know, leadership structure,

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
Um, there's There's a lot of life and a lot of potential underneath that increasingly fragile crust of leadership

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
and that the time is coming. it always comes.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, So so your theory obviously, then takes us into spring next, and I know that that you, in your Ted talk and in your book, you shared some examples of what spring means and and why we're headed in that direction, and some of the stories of optimism that you have. I think local politics is actually a really interesting example, and I can tell Here locally it's been interesting following school board elections, city council conversations, Um. the people who want to have the same conversations that are happening at a national level, Um, are just sort of being laughed at, or you know, like there are some people taking it very seriously. Of course, but there's a lot of eye rolling as well. That is to say we don't want that Here. We don't. We don't want to talk about banning books in our local school district. Let the people in Florida sort that out. We don't want to talk about, you know, anti Di initiatives or anti l, g, b t, Q initiatives. Um, let that happen on national news channels and let us protect our kids and the resources that they Have access to. so I'm optimistic that here in our little town, those conversations are moving in a in a good direction, but I'm curious from your perspective, and having done so much research on this, what some of the stories are that give you optimism as we move toward spring. In this analogy,

rebecca_ryan:
Yeah, I mean, first of all, I love that you're seeing that in your in your home community as well, and you know I think we have to remind ourselves that Um, part of what's like broken right now and that needs to be, maybe needs to break all the way down. break down before you break through. Is that we have like a system right now where at the federal level, oure representatatives aren't actually representing us. I mean, if you, you look The percentage of Americans who favor gun reform right well, we can't seem to pass that at the federal

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
level because we're not being represented. So what we know is that as you come closer to your own zip code, your access to your representatives goes up. You know you run into them. I ran into our mayor like downtown a couple

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
of days ago. Like not in a like, hey mayor way, but just in a like. Oh, there you know. there she is. She's like in my community and there's as an economist. there's something to this. And when Adam Smith wrote the book in which he talked about the free Market and the Invisible Hand, what he meant by that was when you're in a local economy, Um, you are not going to screw your customer because you were going to have to run into them again,

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
And we are a social species and our reputations matter and we want to be accepted by our, you know, By our other members of our social species. So the invisible Hand is that desire that we all have to belong. and as you get further and further away from where decisions are made, the the ability to exercise that invisible hand goes away because you don't know who to be mad at. You know, because it's

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
it's this. It's this power from elsewhere. So yes, at the local level, So some of the things I'm seeing that I'm really excited about are this for Everything that seems to be breaking down, new things are emerging in their place, So as an example, over the last ten years, fifty per cent fewer people are employed as journalists. Like if you look in the you know employee codes, But Axios, as an example, has made a commitment to create these daily news letters and they're starting in all the major markets. They also have a national one. Um. there's another news out That has started up called Semaphore, It's a beautiful product. It does a really nice job creating global news. They have attracted amazing Um. editorial talent, great journalists. and so, even though like the newspapers that we may be have have been used to are closing their news rooms or decreasing their news rooms, we're seeing these other really interesing ways that news is coming forward, so that that would be one example, the other example that I really love to share, Raised in a conservative christian church. And Um, you know, we know that there are large conservative Christian leadership groups that have been influenced by their children and are taking a very pro active environmental stance to taking care of the environment as an example, where as in the past, many Christians just get lumped in with all Republicans, Who, even in private will tell you that they're worried about the environment as well, but publicly, my grand stand

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
a bit about it. So there are there are fissures opening where innovation and insight and completely different and new ways of doing

sean_lukasik:
M.

rebecca_ryan:
things are emerging,

sean_lukasik:
Oh,

rebecca_ryan:
And this is what normally happens as winter turns to spring.

sean_lukasik:
Hm, Um, the reason why I love following you reading, listening to your conversations, which, by the way M you know, Visit Rebecca Ryan Dot com. There are lots of links to different podcast appearances, and of course the books, the blog itself. A lot of these ideas are there in writing or in audio form. Um, what I love is that you really do have this Optimistic view about our future about the world that we live in today. Um, and the the indicators, Um, the signals that you look for M. seem to give you a lot of optimism about the direction that we're heading in as a society and here in the United States. So I very much appreciate that and I just wanted to share that with you. M one of the the concepts that you discussed in that blog, This idea of the Three horizons framework, and that is another. Well, let you explain it, but but I understand it as a framework that sort of talks about going through a transition period. So would you mind first talking about the framework and I have a couple of questions about what sort sort of patterns are coming out of that.

rebecca_ryan:
You bet. Um. So the Three horizons framework, I e, if you kind of zoom out, Um, and if so, listeners, viewers, if you can imagine a sign wave right, a wave that undulates from high to low from high to low from high to low. This is how sound waves are happening right now. Right if you're hearing my voice, That is a wave that's happening.

sean_lukasik:
Yes,

rebecca_ryan:
Um, it's spring in North America And we've got our seeds started. They'll eventually get planted. They will grow to a maximum level of productivity. Hopefully, if the bugs don't get them and the rabbits don't get them, we will

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
harvest their fruit. They will die in the fall. we will trim them back. The whole garden will regenerate over the winter and off we'll go. so there's this. There's a rhythm that is very natural that is up and down and up and down. So this three horizons model is really just taking three time horizons and look At them as waves. So today, whenever you're listening to this, you are living in probably more than one wave of change, but um, let's take an organization as an example. If an organization or a community hired us to come in and do the Three horizons workshop, We would start by asking everybody in that workshop. Okay, this community today is thriving based on a set of assumptions. Like, What are the assumptions Have made this community what it is today? And we list all those assumptions out and we ask Okay, Well, those assumptions be true for forever, and of course, no, they won't be true for forever. At some point their margin of return will decrease, will be on the bottom sign of the bottom edge of that sign wave.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
So then that's horizon one. the horizon we're living in to day, horizon three, Then we visit next, and horizon three is the far future. So maybe we've said that Horizon three is twenty years from now, So the question that we ask is what are the seeds of change that we can already see today that may come to their full fluristion twenty years from now, and I might have the time horizon of twenty years wrong for this. But you know, thinking about internet culture, We know that Europe is requiring certain privacy protections for the Internet. Those aren't here yet in the United States, but I think in twenty years time, they will be here in twenty years time. Google may be broken up, Facebook, maybe Broken up. Amazon may be broken up. Apple may be broken up. You know the big tech leaders who have driven so much value, but also created some injury in economies and in societies they won't be in the current form that they're in today. What other seeds of the future? we starting to see. So in that way we start to imagine how horizon three will unfold over time. Then you get to horizon to horizon too, Is the near future? Maybe it's the ten year future.

sean_lukasik:
M.

rebecca_ryan:
It crests between the time of today when horizon one is cresting, and the far future when horizon three is cresting, and this is the place for entrepreneurs. This is the place to run pilot projects. This is the place where you, you look at what's happening today and you say we know that the way we do things today isn't always going to work. Let's run a different experiment based on what we think is going O be happening in a horizon three. how can we cross That messy middle cross that chason between horizon one and the horizon Three? So if horizon two is where the entrepreneurs live, who are like trying to change things, and horizon three is the horizon for the far out visionaries, right, the people who almost seem a little crazy today, and horizon one is the people who are currently in power like they are managing things today. You can kind of see how these three horizons, um, all work Independently, but if you zoom out far enough, you can see how your community or your organization can ride all of these waves of change.

sean_lukasik:
I love that as a framework and the way that you described it really gets me thinking about so many well time lines you know, big and small. I think When you, when you described it in the blog, you were talking about living in this time between Covid, or Precovid and post Covid, which which you know, Horizon three would be, maybe when it's labeled, is endemic, and were just living with it, But for now we're in this time in between, and that got me thinking about so many opportunities in so many ways that we could ride that second wave as you just subscribed to to, to position ourselves to be in a better place when when it is endemic M. are there? are there any things that you're doing in your work today to position yourself for post Covid world,

rebecca_ryan:
Yes, there are things I mean. During Covid we made a commitment as a team that we were going to be great at doing virtual workshops. We believe that there was actually a way to have a virtual experience that could be even more equitable than in person workshops, Because you know in person workshops like you don't have a chat feature.

sean_lukasik:
Right, yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
Um, And so we just said like, let's figure out how to do this really well, so that our ability to collaborate and design and innovate doesn't have to be limited. Our our ability to do future work doesn't have to be limited based on whether we're in person or not in person. So that's one thing we did. you know. the other thing that I'm doing just very personally. You know, when you were talking about, what can we do to ride the wave to the to the next wave is I and I know I'm not alone, but I've really re thought and re designed my life around my relationships and I know a lot of us have done that. A lot of us have said Wow, when faced with the giant bill board that says you will die, because that's what Covid did for many of us is like, Oh my God,

sean_lukasik:
M,

rebecca_ryan:
this is killing people. It's killing people.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
I love it aught. this is. we cannot underestimate this. The nation that invented orcoholism has had record high quits rates and everyone's like. Where are all the workers? When are they coming back? And the answer is many of them are starting their own things. You know,

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
they are designing their work around their lives around the other things that matter to them. And so I've done some of that. You know, I'm working less, trying to work more smartly. I'm spending more time with the people, especially the little people in Life that I love most, spending far more time with my friends, creating new new rituals and new memories. I'm kind of trying to claw back my own self care and my own health and sleep, Um, and well being, And that has a net plus for society.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

rebecca_ryan:
you know, Um, but you know we're in this in between stage right now to where I think people have kind of forgotten how to people you know like we've kind

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
of forgotten how to be together. So This summer I'm going to restart my pink flamingo parties, which is when I put a pink flamingo in my front yard, and my neighbors know because I send around little tear sheets and say hey, bring a dish to pass on these Friday nights. I do one a month. Um, but we'll be gathering all the neighbors together again for an outdoor pot lock, and all I do is start my grill. It's Wisconsin. I grill broad worst and we just host the party. Everybody else brings a dish to pass, and you know we get to know our neighbors a little bit better, and people who have moved in and so forth, But It's a small way to help us come together. come back together because I think people are aching for it, so I'm putting out the Pink Flamingo challenge to every listener to this podcast. you know, Just get your girl going, and a host and host of neighborhood get together one time this summer fall because people are really aching for this.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, and you mentioned earlier that you're someone who has really been intentional about not letting the screen take things over for you That you have some time every quarter where you, you know, get out with. I believe you, call it analogue time with with paper and a pencil, and just write down your thoughts and experience the real world around you. But I think for a lot of people and maybe some Who might be listening to this this time between Precovid and post covid, Um is a time where they're thinking more deeply about that You know. Certainly, during the height of the pandemic, Um, use of digital media, Sky rocketed, we learned about addiction in a variety of forms, and I believe that addiction to phones and social Media is is a real thing, and I believe that it's something that is a true health problem in our country, and it's part of the reason why I'm doing this. I wonder if you have any recommendations for people who might be in that transition period And thinking about this idea that you know Precovid, I wasn't really aware of how much I was using my phone or how much time I spent on social media, or just time away From the real people in my life, And as I look to that third horizon, Um, bringing it back to the three horizons framework, I want to be someone who uses my phone less who is more engaged in the real world. Um, having gone through that process yourself, I just wonder if that brings up any recommendations or suggestions that you might make or things that have worked for you.

rebecca_ryan:
Yeah, Okay, so this is like now, Rebecca ran the futurist. You know talking, This is like Rebecca Ryan, the flesh and blood person who's just trying to be a better version of herself week by week and month by month and be a good wife and a good friend and a good. you know. whatever. Um, So I, in August of twenty twenty, I sat down and asked myself five questions And It, They're going to sound a little mica because they have to do with death. But it, it rang a bell in me of what really matters to me, And then I started to design, Re, design my life, Re, think my life, and it's taken you know years to get to the point I'm at now because I just had to iterate every quarter. I would just iterate iterate iterate. But here were the five questions and they follow a pattern. Question one, If you knew that you were going to die One week from now, how would you spend your time? Question two, if you knew you were going die in a month, how would you spend your time? Question three, if you knew you were going to die in one year, how would you spend your time? Question four, if you knew you were going to die in five years, how would you spend your time? And the fifth question is you know you were going to die at some point, Not knowing how long That is. How do you want to spend Time? and these questions and I asked them of myself when I need to. I don't do. I don't re. ask these questions every six months. I. I review them every quarter, and if I feel I need to update them, I will because we change over time. Um, but they really told me what matters to me and it is time with my people. I mean, you know my family, my friends. I have created this Term called my first ring, Friends Like these are my three am friends. I would walk on hot coals. for Um. I know they would take my call at three M. anyway, Um, and how can I design my time around? deepening those relationships and sometimes it's really simple things like I have this this time confed list that I keep in my journal, and it's things that I can do with small scraps of time, like when you get Minutes between meetings or what not, and on my time confed list I keep you know, like my first ring, a list of my first ring friends and all the different ideas I can do. Like send a stupid gift. Um, you know, tell them that I'm thinking about them. pick out a card and throw it in the mail. You know, just just things that I can. I can be a good friend and be in better touch. So those five questions about they helped me to live As if I was dying. And I'm not being dramatic. We are all dying.

sean_lukasik:
Hm.

rebecca_ryan:
We don't know when our expiration date is, But to live like you're dying, and then you can, you can go even deeper on this. So I just read the Happier Hour book, the book, Happier Hour, and

sean_lukasik:
M.

rebecca_ryan:
one of the things she talks about in there is, Um,

sean_lukasik:
Oh,

rebecca_ryan:
to actually map out with the most important people in your life. How many more Christmases will you have? So my wife and I got married. Um, neither one of us were spring chickens. We've got married rather recently and she's ten years older than I am, and one of we love summer here in Madison, And I estimated the number of summers we had left when we were both able bodied, and it's fewer than I would like. And so that has just helped me like. I am not going to work my face off every summer. I want to spend more time with my wife in the summers. So these are the kinds of things that You. You might not look at my diary and say, Oh, you're living so much differently now, Rebecca than you were four years ago, But I am living a lot differently now than I was four years ago, with much more intention, with much more of a focus on what really matters and trying to line my time up behind that.

sean_lukasik:
I love that and thank you so much for sharing that. I mean, I think Ah, those are. That's such an important series of questions. Just to think through one time, but to go back to that and to take it to that, You know that one extra step, Um, feels like such a useful exercise and first of all, congratulations and thanks for sharing that. Just because I think it's it's it's going to be a useful tool for me, Ving, forward.

rebecca_ryan:
Oh,

sean_lukasik:
Um,

rebecca_ryan:
I'm glad, let me know. Let me know how it goes.

sean_lukasik:
I will. I will. And you, you said recently that one of like the social, you're often paying attention to signals week signals, Um, and one of those social signals to you has been, Um, a bit of like an alarm on mental health in this country. as a result of the pandemic. In many ways, Um, and Ah, I wonder. Is that what got you really thinking deeply about asking yourself those five questions Or are those not related?

rebecca_ryan:
No, they're not necessarily related. You know, one did

sean_lukasik:
Okay?

rebecca_ryan:
not cause the other. The when I first, when I first asked those five questions, I had been working through Greg Maccoun's book on essentialism And you know,

sean_lukasik:
M,

rebecca_ryan:
really doing what's essential, I've always been a person who I say yes to everything. It's like it's It's like buying too many close and then like you can't get your closet door shut. and you like have to you know, force it shut with your shoulder, and so

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
occasionally you've got to take every In out of the closet and look at it and say Am I going to ever wear this stuff? Like what really matters and the same thing with my life I tend to. I tended to cram it with too much step, so these five questions were very clarifying for me about what should be in my closet of my life, and what shouldn't, But this notion of the you know the mental health bit, I think ties into what you were talking about internet culture, because you know before the show started we were talking about You're Ted Talk from Twenty thirteen, and You affirmed that what we do online cannot replicate what we do in person. And

sean_lukasik:
M.

rebecca_ryan:
so the you know, the social isolation that we had to do to keep ourselves and each other safe during Covid, was very necessary, but it came at a very high price, and I think depression and mental health is one of the long tales of Covid. I saw a statistic recently that only that one in seven American men says they have no friends, And I don't know if you, K has done some great research on this. Maybe people have done research on it in the U. S. as well. I just haven't seen it. But loneliness causes earlier

sean_lukasik:
M.

rebecca_ryan:
death at a higher rate than obesity

sean_lukasik:
Oh,

rebecca_ryan:
and heart disease. I mean, the co morbidity for death with loneliness

sean_lukasik:
yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
is really something. and there is

sean_lukasik:
What,

rebecca_ryan:
no reason for people to die death of loneliness. They have this thing in the U. K, called a silver line, Silver, reflecting like the color of my hair, Um, and

sean_lukasik:
And mine

rebecca_ryan:
older anywhere, An older

sean_lukasik:
yet?

rebecca_ryan:
adults hair. And the idea is any any senior citizen in the U. K, who is feeling lonely can call the Silver Line and a volunteer will just talk with them. You know, I was just last night. I was talking to my college roommate. Um,

sean_lukasik:
Yeah?

rebecca_ryan:
it was her birthday, so I wanted to just call and check

sean_lukasik:
yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
in. We had this great conversation. She's an educator and she was talking about some of the kids that she helped. She's a. She's a pair of helper in elementary school And she had read this little boy a book, And he said, I love every word of this book. And then Christine, her nickname is Slim, Slim,

sean_lukasik:
Oh,

rebecca_ryan:
said, What did you love about the book and he said, the story was so excellent. Will you read to me again? and so she was like, Of course, I'll read to you again, and she said You know what it is is. This kid is lonely. like Yeah, The story

sean_lukasik:
M.

rebecca_ryan:
is is maybe part of it. But what are you doing when you're having a story read to you by an adult? You're usually on a lap. You know you're safe. your your

sean_lukasik:
Hm.

rebecca_ryan:
Comfortable. you're being entertained. It's really intimate and I mean, I don't know about you, but like we all need that, you know, we all need somebody to take

sean_lukasik:
Oh,

rebecca_ryan:
us by the hand,

sean_lukasik:
yeah.

rebecca_ryan:
here here here here,

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

rebecca_ryan:
and to be to be cared for. So this epidemic epidemic of loneliness I think is going to be another one of those signals. Right. That's going to be a long tail of Covid.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah. and that was really the concept of Paesanos. That that was a term that Paesano in in Italian, literally means someone who lives in the same town or the same neighborhood as you, but of course we use it colloquially. Just sort of talk about our our buds. the people who are our family without being blood related. You know our Paesanos, those are the people that you walk through hot coals, for, as you said, And also, those are the people who have an effect on us that makes us physically healthier. That makes us mentally and emotionally healthier as you're as you're describing. Um, and I think too often people turn to Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, and they comment on a photo, or even if it's a direct message. Even if there is some sort of one on one interaction, We don't see the same health Implications of that. We don't see the same health benefits. Those real world relationship. So M. I think that's a good place to to end and you know, hearing you talk about what's important to you and those relationships that you've worked so hard to build, and I hope that your feeling mentally healthier and physically healthier as a result of all of those things. Is there anything else that you wanted to to add? I know that there's so much that we could have talked about and there's so much work that you're doing as we look to the future. Is there anything else that you wanted to add?

rebecca_ryan:
Well, I want to thank you because Paesanos, I think is the word I'm gonna start using for my first ring. You know that, my close in circle of

sean_lukasik:
Uh,

rebecca_ryan:
people, so thank you for the background on that word. I think that you know. the one thing that I just want to like remind people is and this is like Rebecca, as a two legged, but also as a futurist is. I always remind people that the future doesn't just happ, And to us we also happen to the future and we have agency. You know, we do have agency. Even if you feel like you're really stuck right in my in my Zen training we would. We would say you've got choices. You can change your relationship to what's going on Right. You can leave the situation, you know, or you can accept the situation. But all of those things, we are Agents in our own lives and in the futures that we want to create and we want to build. So there's um, You know, there's no room for us who want brighter futures to sit back and let somebody else do it like host your own pink Flamingo party Like it can be that simple.

sean_lukasik:
I've written that down and I plan on it. Actually, so thank you so much. this conversation has been everything that I hoped it would be, and it's been a real honor talking with you, so thank you so much for your time.

rebecca_ryan:
You're a generous host, thank you, Sean.