The Paesanos Podcast

sean_lukasik:
Matt Parrino, thank you for joining me on the Paesanos Podcast. How are you?

matt_parrino:
Great, thanks for having me.

sean_lukasik:
Absolutely? I think the last time I saw you you were on the sidelines at training camp

matt_parrino:
Hm.

sean_lukasik:
back in the summer, high expectations for the Buffalo Bills. The first thing that I want to ask you is how would you summarize this season that the Bills just had?

matt_parrino:
It's interesting like getting the news today. you know, Jessica Pagula, kind of going in detail on what happened with her mother, Kim, Like, it's almost like people kind of forgot about that whole deal right, like I don't want to say, forgot about it. But like you know, you move on to the season, the game start, and that was really, in a lot of ways the top shooting and then that that kimpegola health situation really kind of started off this season of you know, just Heartbreak for this organization for the city, and obviously you get you know right before the year and then Dawson knocks with his brother, losing him tragically twenty, some year old. You know young man from. I think he was an old man, So it's like they've gone through so many different things and they've kind of been able to compartmentalize it, but I think you kind of see a little bit that. in the end I think it was just an organization that had been through so much. I mean Kimpagoula. If you go read that piece by Jessica. She was so heavily involved in every aspect of the organization. Do not have her around for a whole season. It has an impact.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, especially a season that needed that Like so much influence from the top, N so much called for so much leadership this year in ways that seasons haven't in the past, And I know you spoke a lot on your podcast. Shout the The Buffalo Bill's football podcast. Um, and you recently spoke with Jeff, Per man, one of one of who you spoke about as a journalism idol for you About tragedy in sports and there was enough of it to go around this season. Um, can you maybe re cap a bit of those conversations that that I know you've had in different arenas, just about what it's been like to cover so much tragedy in one season frankly, but in sports in general

matt_parrino:
Well, it's challenging. It's a challenge because you got two forces kind of up against each other for yourself. Internally, you have the journalism truth seeking part of your job, and then the human element where you know you have to all these situations require such delicate. Um, you know a delicate approach to how you cover it to the conversations that you have with people around it. And I'm not just talk People in the organization, but people you know, just regular people that ask. I mean, there's people that have asked me going back to June now, Like about Kimpegola, every single stretch of this this way, And I think the fact that you didn't hear something before this was really just a collective effort to allow the family at their time to kind of come out with it, And you know the details of it and the fact that she's still dealing with. you know aphasia and some memory memory. I mean, this is is a significant event that happened to her and it's smething that you know. Heaven forbid that happens to anybody's. you know, somebody in their family. It's horrible across the board, but she was so heavily involved with the operations of two major sports teams that just challenge all across the board for the people that were you know, dealing with it on the inside, and then kind of us from a journalism perspective, and you know, with a Demar Hamlen thing when I got a chance to talk to Jeff Perlman, it was just about being on the ground, Um in Cincinnati at Pay Court Stadium when it was Happening, and you're dealing with at the time. reports coming out from some local journalists about Um. You know the severity of Demar Hamlen situation. I mean, there was a couple of things that I saw retweeted by reputable accounts that ended up not being true. Like Ou got to be really careful if you don't have the information yourself In those moments you don't really want to go with it, and I think that our coverage kind of follow that and being on the ground and getting that major update the next day from his uncle, Um, was Um, You know it was. It was helpful for not only the community but really across the board. I mean, I did c n n interviews. I did international t V interviews. I mean, that was the highest profile week professionally and it comes at this really strange time when it's like you're dealing with somebody that you know might not a make. It might not be the same person. And obviously there's been this unbelievable recovery for Demar Hamlet, and every day the news It seems to get better and better. But yeah, so that was. It was a weird thing. Professionally pretty cool to get a chance to wrap with with peroman, but the circumstances were tough.

sean_lukasik:
The reason why I'm doing this podcast is because I want to explore the role that Internet culture has in all of our lives, And I did talk years ago. Um. and the term Pizano's was used to indicate people that you know and your friends with in real life, as opposed to the people that you only know online. Um, but I think you know Was almost ten years ago and I think those lines have been blurred a little bit more. Now the relationships that we build as a result of the internet, and frankly, the careers that we build as a result of the internet, Um have become in real life relationships and in real life careers. And it's it's impossible to separate Internet culture with the reality that we live today, and you started to talk a little bit about How you know these stories are coming out even from reputable sources. That eventually proved to be incorrect. And what what I really want to talk to you about is the role that the Internet plays in the job that you do as a journalist as a sports journalist. And you know maybe how that's affected your career. I won't say, helped or hurt or either one of those things, but Um, just starting from the high. Well, how do you feel that the Internet has played a role in the career that you have today in the reporting that you do on a day by day but also minute by minute basis.

matt_parrino:
Yeah, I mean, if you even did this job fifteen years ago, it was completely different and so I think, for the first and foremost I'd say what the internet

sean_lukasik:
M.

matt_parrino:
has done is, it's allowed an opportunity to those that were able to adapt traditional methods of covering sports teams and kind of flip it toward this immediate, Um, all consuming and compassing um worldwhere. It just it wasn't like this before. I mean to hear any to hear. See any kind of like, Um, sports talk right like, I mean, if you go back fifteen years before first take and all that kind of stuff, you have to listen to it on a radio show Right now. It happens everywhere it happens in the radio happens on the. T. V happens on your Twitter feed. You can actually start as a as a fan. You can just start your own kind of podcast and do it that way. Um, so I think that the Internet for me and we're all credit I with my career is that I saw what the environment was that I was going to be working in, and I kind of used all of the levers available to me to ummaximize my social media presence, my online presence, and we've shifted a lot right, like even two or three years ago Like that. The the emphasis in journalism was so much on the stories right that we that we were. Like. How many clicks are you getting all that kind of stuff? Now? it's It's more so about like building brand, I think, and then like. what else do you offer to? Because sure, I want all the stories. That's like part of the you know the deal right when we shake hands and you follow me. You want me to give you bills coverage? That's part of it, but also what else are you doing doing a podcast? Great, Um, do you interact with people on social media? There's a lot of journalist, sports journalist that don't like doing that and I feel like they. You could see it in the numbers like they just kind of get lost behind. I think in a lot of ways For me, it's personal because as you know, I grew up in Buffalo, and you know Bills fans are my people right like I grew up in this culture in this town, And so for me connecting with them, I feel like it's just second nature because for thirty five years I was one of them, but for a lot of people sports journalists, it's almost like a an annoyance and I almost feel like You know you talk about like biases right. I think that people, maybe that come in out of market Have a bias against it right because they had their teams or experiences beforehand, as they were kind of growing up. And maybe there's an element to you know, Buffalo, or people that annoy them. But that doesn't really happen with me because this is just where I'm from and I've dealt with Buffalo people for the majority of my life.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, and that's very clear and very evident in the way that you approach your job and how open you are to. you know, the reporting that you do, the way that you treat the team, treat the players treat the city. A lot of that was on display this season, as we've talked about a bit, and a lot of that is on display online. You know you, you're very active on Twitter. Obviously your active on Facebook. Um, you share your podcast through Youtube and stuff. You have all these avenues by which people can reach you and comment

matt_parrino:
M.

sean_lukasik:
on the work that you're doing. M. how do you deal with that And and what's it like? I mean covering sports. When that conversation never really stops.

matt_parrino:
Um, it's a great question. I think sometimes you know you need to. you need to press Paul. You need to know when to kind of put the phone down. Put the absolute way, because I mean it could be. It can be consuming, and I have two little kids. I coach my son's travel baseball team. Um, I have other interests. I try to spend time with my family to do different things, So to get away from it at times is really important. but I also think that I've developed And curated a very healthy online Um community. So if you don't fit into that community and that's okay like you don't, we might not see it and you might disagree with me right on a bills subject. That's fine, like I have plenty of people that come in my comments and disagree with me pretty consistently that I still interact with on the regular. As soon as it turns like negative or Um. harassment. I usually just boot them out of the community and most of the platforms allow you to do that pretty easily. Um, but you gotta, you got to navigate that part of it too, because I think it could be a little bit of. I think that it could be counter productive to spend you know time that you know on social media platforms in the negative space, because we got enough of that going on in other like um, U know themes, Other topics that are that are covered on those platforms. Obviously politics has never been as devisive as it is today. And so I try to keep it, you know, uplifting, Um, inclusive and I think that people Kind of get that and that's why the interactions tend to be productive.

sean_lukasik:
It does seem that way. And and I feel like there's not there aren't many careers out there where that question would be irrelevant. You know, like how do you disconnect how, how do you set the phone down? And even if it's not part of your career, being online and answering emails and questions all the time, it's part of daily life right now, and um, you know, seeing and having those interactions all the time, You, and having two young kids that you're you're bringing up and trying to set a good example for. Is that ever anything that crosses your mind about, like the way that they interface with screens and phones or the way that they see you do that.

matt_parrino:
Yeah, it's a great question. There's been times when both of my kids have said, Oh, dad, you're always on your phone, right and that is a concern, especially because we're a family that doesn't really allow much screen time in the hand held variety. They watch T. V and everything like that. It's not but no video games. No, I pads. No, I phone. None of that kind of stuff have at eight and almost five. and so when it's kind of going to be tough because they're sitting there especially for my eight year old. Like All right, What's what's the? What's the rub Here? Every time I look at you, you're on your phone, but you tell me I can never do that. So it's It's definitely a challenge. Um, but I also explain. It's just part of you know my job, and one day they'll have a job and it might include you know if they're a lawyer, they're goin t b on their phone a lot of time. So they're a doctor. They're goin to B on their phones a lot of the time Like there's certain professions where you know. Probably not the same way where it's like your. You can never put it down in the way that my job works. Um, but We try to just be up front with them and explain it to them. And you know my son. He sees me doing all these different things, like whether be on T V before the games or on the podcast or you know stuff, my wife will show him on her phone. And so he's kind of just used to it. I think at this point he gets like, Oh, that's just doing work.

sean_lukasik:
Now a lot of people talk and it's easy to talk about the negative side effects of a lot of that, but I think because of such tightly connected world now there are also a lot of benefits to constantly being connected. Jeff Proman is someone that you mentioned earlier, and when we were talking about, you know, covering tragedy and sports and he's someone that I understand you were able to re connect around the Demarhamlan story. Do you think that that Would have been possible you know, without that constant connection, or have there been any relationships that you've been able to build as a result of being online and and just being out there and available for people?

matt_parrino:
Yeah, I think that there's a healthy percentage of relationships that I've built just based on social media presence. Um, in our world like that's. That's where people like I have a good story about that. Actually, Like So Ross Talker used to play offensive line for the Bills. He's now in the podcast Space, media Space, sideline reporter, N f L. College. He does a lot of lot of stuff, and actually one of the top Nflpodcasts in the world Like it's He's really done a really good job and I had him on my show. Once We connected on social media, followed each other on social media. In this past season, I ended up seeing him a lot more like he was covering a lot of Bills games, And we've never like, actually sat and had a long conversation, but every time we walked by each other at the Bills facility, it's like hand shake like we are couple of old friends, kind of like. At one point, I think like a like, a little like half hug and we only know each other from social media interactions. At this point he's been on my show. Of course, so there's that inter personal part It, too. but he's He's doing a million podcasts a week, and like with a million different people, And so that connection comes, I think from the impact that you made on somebody on social media, And you know, I think in a perfect world, I love to be able to have all the relationships that I have, have some type of in person like element to them. But that's one cool one that I think is just like you know, we get it where both super busy. some people fit in in different pockets in your life. And um, that's the way that this relationship has worked to this point And there's you know. I can probably talk about dozens of those

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, I mean, you're around, obviously journalists all the time, and professional athletes all the time. How do you see them dealing with it? I can't imagine trying to do the job of a job that requires so much time and so much focus. Um, and you see some of these athletes that are just online all the time? It seems I know that they're not obviously because they wouldn't get to that level if

matt_parrino:
Right.

sean_lukasik:
that if they were easily distracted. But how do you Them dealing with that reality?

matt_parrino:
I think some deal with it better than others. You know, one person. I think we could all agree that didn't handle it very well. The last couple of years was Cole Beasley, and he's admitted as much. I mean, he's somebody that he talked about when he got here in two thousand nineteen about. you know, one of the things he was working on is like just putting down social media and getting off of it, and like nothing productive was coming from it, And you know Covid hit and he couldn't stop firing off controversial tweeds, And it's not even really about. Like the contents of the messages. It's about like. To your point, these are professional athletes Like every little distraction could be the difference between getting ready to play that week. Like not only when Cole Beasley sent out of tweet, was it affecting him having to get asked about it? It was about it was all his team mates and coaches being asked about it as well. And so yeah, there's productive ways to use your social media. And then there's like, really, just explosive ways to use it, and everybody has got to have an opinion on everything today. Like that's one piece of it that I Go way too. like sometimes I just want to, you know, the traditional newsman and me just wants to present something without having to take on it. but everybody wants to take on it. It's like Okay, it is what it is. But what do you think about it? Because I want. I can't make up my own mind. I want you to tell me what to think about it, and I think that's a bigger by product of the problem that we're facing as a society in general is that we, everybody's looking at everybody else to dictate what Individuals should think about certain topics and certain things. I think sometimes we just got to do a little bit more critical thinking. It's it's the reason we spent all these years in school. and you know a lot of times people just want to be fed what they what they're supposed to think.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, I was listening to a conversation recently where someone was talking about that critical thinking time that you just mentioned, and sitting back and collecting your own thoughts and knowing what you feel about things, as a contrary to constantly being on the phone and looking for other people's takes, and how doing the latter actually forms your brain. Like if you're just constantly reading other people's takes, You know literally from a scientific perspective, That's how you're developing your brain and then you start to lose the ability to form thoughts on your own, and I heard that and I immediately turned off the podcast I was listening to just to sit and think for a while, because

matt_parrino:
Good.

sean_lukasik:
I was like Well, now is a good time to do that, But it sounds like you're kind of saying the same thing, and you know, from from the athletes perspective you bring up cold, bleak, cold bees. Um, and that's a good example, and I also think about like the snow man and is Mackenzie doing their locker room Karioki every

matt_parrino:
Hm,

sean_lukasik:
week and putting that on line and having a little bit of fun with it. There's two sides to that, You know. there's two sides of putting stuff out in a constantly connected world.

matt_parrino:
Yeah, and like those guys, first of all, Dean's great Mckenzeis, Great, like it's entertaining right, like they're connecting with. They're having fun. They're connecting with a fan base like, But it turned into almost like this expected Friday event, right like where It's like you know you can take a week off like you don't have

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

matt_parrino:
to do it every week right. But like they had fun with it and I kind of get it, and to be honest with that, I think that's a healthy use of social media. You know. it probably was a big. like. You know. Maybe they were looking at it like Okay, on Friday, we're done with all the practices. We're on the game day like it's this big sigh of relief and we're gonna party a little bit. Um and enjoy it. But yeah, social media in the way that you know, it's interesting like so, Apparently, step on digs. deleted all of his Instagram post. This is a very common thing for like skilled position players in the Nfl the last couple of years. It's I can't remember who the first wanted to do, But Travis White did it a couple of years ago, and obviously all of the. And it creates this like self driven drama, right like, Because you're starting that like Stephan Digs is starting that. And then I guarantee you when we asked him about that, there's going to be a level of agitation about having to answer for it, but he's putting that out in the world like he's He made that decision to have that action that now needs Um questions for him that need to be answered based on that, especially considering where things left off last season. the lasting image that will Bills fans will have all off season with him with his hands up to a quarterback that wouldn't even recognize. like, even like Um, pop his head up and then it's like

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

matt_parrino:
he doesn't talk like he hasn't done any interviews since then, and this is very typical of digs. like he didn't talk after the case game two years ago or last season. So this isn't anything new In terms of behavior, But sometimes I think like there's this misconception of like you don't need to do certain things. And if you do it, I from my perspective and I can only guess why it's you want the attention placed on that thing. And so now when it becomes a like, a, like a conversation point on you know podcast, and then eventually like when training camp heads or o, T, S, and many camp, It was of the self created variety. And but there's an Dis is great, so I'm not trying to like jump on him too much. but you know it, just from my perspective. It then gets a little bit annoying when you, you put this out there and then there's this kind of like I roll when you're asked about it. So it's coming

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, no, I mean, it's interesting because everyone's got a different way of using social media and deleting it is one way of using it. I mean, that's a tool. That's a thing that Diggs would not have been able to do twenty years ago. Like

matt_parrino:
Right

sean_lukasik:
that. That's a statement that he just wouldn't have been able to make if he was frustrated or wanted to symbolically erased the last season or whatever like there. That wouldn't have been possible for him to do. so it's still. It's still a statement. Um, and I'm thinking as you're talking about the story that Jessica Jessica Pegula shared this morning, and I know you've already broken that down a little bit, but you know another avenue is to not address what's going on at all, and that's one thing that the Gula family sort of decided right from the start, as it turns out with the cardiac arrest that campo, Ah, um, uh, that happened to Kim of this off season, and just because just now talking about it, she's a professional athlete herself. She's She's a number three ranked tennis player in the world. Nd. her approach was to not address it at all until now, and it's just interesting to think about. You know all the different ways that these these athletes, and you know we're talking about athletes, but Everyone in the journalism field in my field, in social media, in digital marketing, in general that we choose to use or not use what's out there for us.

matt_parrino:
And I think sometimes things are accidents like I think sometimes you don't know what to do. I wonder how much of this was Just like not knowing how to really get around this story. And of course you know when I like Yes, at stuff like this, but you know it's an evolving situation for Kimpigl. That sounds like it's there's. There's new parts of recovery every single day. It's probably a complete tdifferent situation today than it was even a month or two ago. And so I get that kind of piece of it Like, Um, Wanting to you know, wait till you have some kind of hold on what the situation and circumstances are. Um, but in terms of just social media used in general, Yeah, like, it's crazy like every little decision that you can make from what you re. share what you like like that could have an impact on your brand in the end of the day.

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

matt_parrino:
And um, I try to be like super neutral with stuff like that to, Because I don't want to alienate anybody. I'm never going to stand for anything hateful, so I don't really like put up with that kind of stuff If you're coming with some type of that hateful agenda or like, stuff like that, usually makes its way out of the conversation quickly, but for the most part we're all just people that are kind of you. have a bunch of different ideas were sharing. It's the easiest way to share them. Also like, just talk about like I was a communication major at B. And so one of the thing Is that I think is super interesting about online communication versus in person communication, what you'd say to somebody that you don't know online versus what you'd say to them in person that you say in person that you don't know drastically different. I mean, you could put a ten or fifteen different scenarios together of what you even be talking about with that person and they would play out one hundred percent completely different online. I shouldn't say hundred percent, maybe like, ninety to ninety five per cent Completely

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

matt_parrino:
different. Some people are just straight up as soles and they're not. They're not like afraid to bring it in person to, I mean, just take a trip to

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

matt_parrino:
your local grocery store and I'm sure you'll see a few of those folks, but um that, that's to me, the thing that you got to always remember. there's this. there's this need to react. That's what I've gotten really good at in my job is like I don't react to vitriol like I did even two years ago, but definitely

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

matt_parrino:
not the same way I did five years ago. I have a huge following right so

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

matt_parrino:
if a person with a very small following says something nasty to me, If I respond in any way, I'm amplifying that. so I've come to learn that the best defense against that is just ignoring it, because at the end of the day it just gets lost in the ether so quickly. Even stuff that really digs at you personally like it gets lost

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

matt_parrino:
so quickly that we're already on The next thing ten minutes later. And so that's another piece of it that I've had to. Really. Just it's its own world. It doesn't have any impact on the regular world. I mean it does. it. Can you mean you can get canceled right on social media, and that would have

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

matt_parrino:
pact on the regular world, but I would say a big chunk of it really doesn't have any bleed over into what we experience in day to day in real life

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, I mean, you and I are about the same age we went to. We went to school at the same time, and when we were in college, there wasn't any talk that I remember

matt_parrino:
Right

sean_lukasik:
about social media as a platform or social media, even as something that like a business would use or that someone would use in a professional capacity. It was starting to come around in college, but it was definitely not part of any of the classes that I took,

matt_parrino:
Right?

sean_lukasik:
and Ah, and so, ultimately having built a career around this type of media that didn't even exist when you and I were in college. Um, we've had to kind of learn on the fly. and you've I mean, what you just shared is such a such a healthy perspective about that and I know probably didn't come without making a mistake or amplifying some trolls. message. Some, I'm in the past and then realizing shit, I shouldn't have done that, you know, and I'm guilty of that myself, and I wonder what some of the other things are that that you've learned along the way as you've built a career in, frankly, a landscape that just didn't exist before

matt_parrino:
That's a good question, too. You know, first and foremost, I think like being willing to admit when you're wrong is huge. There's so many people in this business that you know, Give the takes that takes that takes, but it's on to the next take and there's never like any type of you know, look back or reflection on things that we were wrong about, and I'm as quick to talk about things that I was wrong about as I am to talk about. You know things that I was right about, and come dunking on people that disagreed with me, which I like to do. But

sean_lukasik:
You're good at that, too.

matt_parrino:
yeah, I'm good at that too, but like I think that that's healthy, I think that's important. I think like we don't know everything. Nobody knows everythin. I don't care if you've been around football your whole life. Um, you know, there's things that know you might say that don't end up being the case. And and I think presenting yourself as some all knowing is I don't know. It's just um, I don't like it. but in terms of things that I've learned have been thinking about this. That was a good question. I think the importance of like the podcasting space is something that I kind of saw and I always tell people this that the key to the vision was the time I spent in the U. F. C. because podcasts were getting really big at the time in that space, Joe Rogan, obviously back when he did mostly fight based Um podcast before it got, he was still doing the experience with these kind of off the wall like Interviews, but it didn't turn nearly as political until later on. Um, but he does a great job with those and I always thought they were super. you know, Interesting, and just that's like the setting to have a conversation for period of time to break things down. Arahaanih's done a show for many. many years. I took a lot of things from him as well, but I think that that's just that's that's the piece of it where people can really get to know you And so when I meet people out that watch my show and Interact with me in person, it's like they already know me because they listen

sean_lukasik:
Hm,

matt_parrino:
to me all the time, And I think that that connectiveness to then helps keep that audience for your content right. Like

sean_lukasik:
Hm.

matt_parrino:
if if there's no, I think now more than ever. Because of how many options there are out there, there's got to be some type of reciprocal relationship here like, of course, I can't listen. I can't d. M back sixty five thousand people and a Twitter right like that, Be crazy, but when I do get one, I make it as much of a point as I can to interact with that person. Share ideas, talked back and forth, Um again, as as best I can. M comments on line, meeting people out in person, so on and so forth, So I think that piece of it like the way that that created this relationship with the community to, was something that I learned how to how important it was early and then executing the Is on the proper way, Um, the right elements, live and post production, et cetera Something I definitely learned as I went.

sean_lukasik:
Do you ever have conversations at at, you know, Syracuse, dot Com or New York, Up state, or any of the places that you've worked about, Uh, those real life interactions with your fans Because sixty five thousand people is just about. You know the number that fill up the Bills stadium on on a Sunday afternoon. Um.

matt_parrino:
M

sean_lukasik:
And and as you said, there's no way that you could possibly have a conversation with sixty five thousand people. There's no way that you could know sixty five thousand P. But in some ways they know you. Because you're out there. You're putting Conto content out there all the time. Do you ever talk about that Because I know the players. do. I know the players talk all the time and they get training on how to deal with fans and that kind of thing. But

matt_parrino:
Not

sean_lukasik:
do you have those conversations

matt_parrino:
not really. in that sense, I think more than anything like I've become the expert on that, so I feel like people back at the company like elicit ideas from me on how to deal. Deal with stuff like that. It's conversation. S. I always have with my boss right like there's omething that my editor. If there'something that pops up Um on a given week, Um, And and it's something that you know I could see, is going to be something that can turn heat There. Something in that in that range, I usually get it on his radar and we talk out pros and cons and so, and so far there haven't been a lot of those recently, which has been nice. Um, but in recent years that's definitely been the case. but no, not so much.

sean_lukasik:
Interesting? Yeah, I mean, I didn't think about it before this conversation, but as you're talking about, you know how many people follow your writing in your interviews and podcasts and things, and and in some ways probably feel like they know you. That is, it's got to be hard to have a conversation. then. when you meet someone in real life, they know a lot about you and you know virtually nothing about them. and I hadn't thought about that before, especially as as we're talking about. You know Iding real life relationships as a result of the internet.

matt_parrino:
Yeah,

sean_lukasik:
Appreciate that perspective.

matt_parrino:
yeah, I will say, though, too like it benefits me in those scenarios that I'm inquisitive by nature. Like so, Those conversations usually if it was reversed right like where I knew everything about a fan and the fan didn't know anything about me. I think it would be a little bit more awkward. but because I'm really good, I've done it so many times now where I've met fans and we've talked like I have like that. You know that firing squad Of questions that I can throw out real quick to get you. Really like, gets to note somebody really quickly. Like what they're about. where they grew up all those kinds of things. Um, yeah,

sean_lukasik:
Well, I appreciate you taking some time to have this conversation today, because I know that you do think deeply about this, and in your, as far as you know, journalists and sports reporters go, you are out there quite a bit, and you share a lot about the journeys that you've been on and the way that you think about doing your job, and in the way that you think about interacting with the players, the coaches, the fan, the other people in the media, so I appreciate you sharing some of that today. One, One last question is you know the Bills are early betting favorites to win the Super Bowl next year. Are you putting your money down on that now?

matt_parrino:
Um, t. B. D. we'll

sean_lukasik:
Yeah,

matt_parrino:
see what happens here over the next couple of months. Hey, got a lot of things to figure out with this roster. Um, I know that they like it. What's going to happen with George employer Tremain Edmonds? Those are big, kind of pieces that you will have to maybe work around. But I think it's about putting people around Josh Allen, and if they do a really good job of that, Yeah, I'll be right back on board the hype train like, and I think, for the most part, going thirteen and three with the injuries that they Suffered all the off the field on the field stuff that they dealt with. I mean it's it is. It was pretty pretty remarkable season and I do have a level of understanding. You know, sports is so such a macho world right like So it's like emotions or like talking about your feelings. It's not something that you know. Previous decades was as accepted as it is now. but I do feel like listening to guys talk about it and like what it was like to go through this season. Tamara, Situation in particular that I just think it just really just took so much out of them. Like the emotional roller coaster of thinking that your one of your good friends, your brother. You know, that's how they view each other on these football teams. On sport teams in general could die. Go from that to then. A couple of weeks later he's fine. He's walking back into the facility and it's this crazy turn around like that is a up and down and they always do a good job. They talk about it, not rolling, the Not riding the emotional roller coaster. But that one is impossible not to get on because it is. There's so many things kind of hitting you Or course, So you think maybe that this makes them tougher makes them stronger And you can't imagine anything like this taking place next year Right and so from that perspective they'll probably be better, you know, from a starting point if they're not banged up and Von Miller is the same guy. Yeah, I think he'll be there in the end.

sean_lukasik:
Yeah, I love what you said about that, especially the fact that it is. It's such a macho world. and yet in one of the most hyped and most viewed games of the year, those guys were were crying. They were hugging and holding each other. They were supporting each other. They were dealing with emotions in a very raw way. Um, and Everyone who was watching, I think understood that sports in the grand scheme of things doesn't matter as much as we want it to matter. Sometimes

matt_parrino:
Hm.

sean_lukasik:
doesn't matter as much as we make it matter in our own lives. Sometimes, Um, and I hope they can bring that perspective into next year, and I love that they were able and willing to show it to talk about it, and and I hope they're able to do that a little bit more even as we progres Through the off season, and and as I'm sure, players, coaches, journalists, fans alike are dealing with the trauma of all the stuff that happened this season.

matt_parrino:
Well, said

sean_lukasik:
Mat. thank you so much for for joining me and for being one of the first few guests on this podcast. I'm excited for this journey and I'm excited to see the Bills win the super Boll next year.

matt_parrino:
Yeah, man, it's great to connect. Re. connect with you any time you need me. Let me know was great conversation.

sean_lukasik:
Appreciate it. Take care.

matt_parrino:
Take care.